Justin: You wrote to my friend, this…
The Catholic Church wrote, translated, copied, and preserved God’s written word throughout the ages. That is the only reason you even have a Bible. Quit trying to interpret the Scriptures without the Church, because it is the Bible AND the Church, both or neither.
John, you seem to be a slow learner,. To begin with you say the church interprets the scripture for us. That’s an outright lie, I attended a Catholic college and University for 8 years and i asked the Priests etc to explain certain Scriptures and they either said they didn’t know or it wasn’t my problem to begin with.
Jesus said, But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.” (1 John 2:27)
You seem to take pride in the fact you are an intelligent man. Tell me, are you intelligent because God created you such or is it BECAUSE YOU ARE A SELF MADE MAN ?
J. Salza: Justin, I can’t vouch for what a priest told you or didn’t tell you. What I can vouch for is history. The hard nut for Protestants to crack is the fact that the Catholic Church determined the canon of Scripture at regional councils in A.D. 382, 393 and 397. Even your own Protestant apologists recognize the same. Why don’t you?
The Catholic Church translated the original copies during the first centuries of the Church and throughout the Middle Ages. She also made the Scriptures available in the vernacular so all could read them. Study your history, Justin. There was no other church around. Take a look at all the quotes from the Fathers on my site or using other resources. They all claimed membership in the Catholic Church.
The Church came first, then the Bible. The Bible wasn’t even compiled until 382, and printing presses weren’t invented until 1440. If you really think that the Bible is the only way for salvation, then what about those poor souls for 1500 years who didn’t have a Bible? Justin, Christ established an authority on earth to preserve His revelation and decide the Bible canon. This authority is the Holy Catholic Church.
If you disagree, then tell me what authority determined the Bible canon. I look forward to your answer.
Justin: John, maybe this will alter your Catholic thoughts on eternal hellfire. Jesus said (not mary) “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live” (John 5:25). The words of Jesus are true, that all who hear the quickening Voice of the Son are lifted from their appointment of death and live, even as you and I came alive upon hearing His call; but “Marvel not at this,” as He went on to say, “for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto THE RESURRECTION OF DAMNATION” (John 5:28-29).
Contrary to popular belief, the resurrection of DAMNATION, as the King James Bible has it, is a very promising subject and merits closer examination. Although this translation is classified as a work of literary art, it is not noted for its accuracy. It is therefore, not the best one to use for study. It certainly has the beauty and flare of that day, but this poetic style of writing does not constitute infallibility, as some may suppose. The text is also written in the old English, which in itself makes it difficult to grasp at times. To compound the problem, a large number of the words carried a different thought than what they do today. The loyal translators of the king can be given credit for the wonderful truths contained between its leather-bound covers, for there are many, but we should also know they sanctioned approximately 70,000 errors as well. Fifty thousand of those discrepancies have since been corrected, to a degree. The above word –DAMNATION — is one of the 20,000 remaining errors.
John, get on an airliner, and go to the Vatican and get the big boys to translate John 5:25 to you, then mail me their answer.
J. Salza: Justin, first of all, I have made no reference in this dialogue about “my views of eternal hellfire,” but I can assure that those views are consistent with Sacred Scripture, as is everything else I believe. In fact, I use John 5:28-29 quite frequently to refute your false, Protestant doctrine of “the Rapture.”
Second, the fact that the KJV has errors just bolsters my argument that you need an authority to tell you what translations are correct and what translations are erroneous. Since the Catholic Church wrote, translated, and handed down the Bible to us, I defer to her judgments on what translation is the best. Based on these historical facts, what gives you the authority to determine which translations are correct and which are not?
Speaking of the King James Version of the Bible, it has no authority either, to the extent that it deviates from the Latin Vulgate translated by Jerome in the fourth century. Moreover, King James was a sodomite politician. Why would anyone defer to an immoral, secular ruler’s interpretation of Scripture? Fortunately, King James’ wife figured it out, since she became a Catholic.
You see Justin, this is a question of authority. God gave us the Church, which interprets both the Scripture and Tradition to maintain unity in God’s family and bring us to the truth of salvation in Christ. This is why the Catholic Church is one (for 2,000 years), and your Bible Christian church is a splintering off of thousands of different denominations. God is not the author of your Protestant confusion (cf. 1 Cor. 14:33).
Christ appointed a chief steward over His house, the pope, in order to be the unifying force for the Christian family. Christ knew that the Bible could not be such a force, since it is subject to many different interpretations. In fact, Christ never even commanded His apostles to write anything down. The Bible is not a complete catechism on Christianity. That is why the St. Paul calls the Church (not the Scripture) the pinnacle and foundation of the truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
Your polemics against the Church are intellectually groundless. You are not qualified to debate this topic. If you think you are, then please tell me (1) what authority determined the canon of Scripture; and (2) what authority determined the proper translation of the Bible.